Transparency and Negative Space Salvage

[Trisha]

#1 Yesterday, 07:21 PM
Ravenlark
Mother Goose Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a cottage made of bones.
Posts: 990

Transparency and Negative Space

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This, Sammus12, is a relatively decent example of why TEC will never have any form of transparency.

" Welcome to Negative Space. No censorship here! This is the place to do whatever you like without worrying about the effect of your actions on our new players.
You are facing east. You see Meeting Room B to the east.
Ckingsley22 (Aux) is standing here."

Woke up here today. Last time I said anything in the WA was on Monday night. Mike and I were giggling about past GM transgressions and he was providing hilarious @pasted screen shots of their ridiculousness.

Now we are in a room we cannot leave. It stuns us every time we try. It's super neat.

Also, I noticed the other day, when I tried to toggle-on the Aux-chat to help someone that I could not. So I went into the WA and checked my forum accounts. I no longer had access to the Trustee forums. I was going to let it go, but then GM Uzak was on duty, so I asked him if he'd check on it for me.

He did, and got back to me later that day with this:

Message 424 on Ravenlark:
From: Uzak
To: Ravenlark
When: 6:25 pm, Saturday, June 19, 2010
Subject: Trustee status
---
Your trustee abilities have been removed intentionally due to your misuse of
the powers that had been granted to you. They will not be given back to you.
---

I had further questions, so I sent in an @request, as no one could A) be bothered to tell me that my status had been removed and B) why, after I asked to know specifically why.

This was my request and the response to it:

Originally submitted on: 4:19 am, Sunday, June 20, 2010
Category: Question Request
Title: Request for Clarification on Removal of Trustee Status

I asked GM Uzak for the reason I was no longer a Trustee, as I found that I had been removed from the forums and had not received a message as to why.

He responded back after checking into it with: "Your trustee abilities have been removed intentionally due to your misuse of the powers that had been granted to you. They will not be given back to you."

I would like some clarification in this matter as to what exactly I did. All I can think of is arguing with GM Cyradis in aux-chat, which I don't feel is an abuse of my Trustee powers. It would have been nice to have gotten an @mail as to the fact my Trustee status was being removed and why.

Submitted by: Ravenlark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note appended by Tiehn on 2:29 pm, Wednesday, June 23, 2010:

The position of "Trustee" was given in the past to those the staff believed were trustworthy and responsible enough to maintain separation and follow the rules outlined for play, in effect becoming a representative OF correct play.

It is a position of trust. When it became very obvious that the pattern of your behaviour was not returning to what it had been when you were selected, you lost that position.
----------------------------------------

While it's somewhat freeing to no longer feel even remotely obligated to help anyone that plays TEC, I'm astounded by the Staff's inability to even handle a simple 'disciplinary matter' with even a modicum of professionalism. By that I mean even telling me I was being disciplined in the first place. Both with the removal of my Trustee status and waking up in 'Negative Space' in the WA. While it is a very clever name and all, maybe if the GMs stopped being so ridiculous, there wouldn't be files and files of screenshots showing how biased and irrational their behavior has habitually been.

And while it's clear to -me- that their 'pattern of behavior' is not going to change any time soon, I can wait them out. Since it's perfectly clear that their pattern of behavior entails swooping in, making a mess, and leaving for six months.

TL;DR: The GMs are silly and insecure children. But don't ever tell them so or you'll wind up in a 'cleverly' named box in the WA.
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#2 Yesterday, 07:39 PM
Max Powers
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,163

I got thrown in this area for:

"Tiehn responds from afar, "Ah, that. Instead of flat out WA banning folks, that room is the solution for those who are consistently negative and off-colour in the Welcome Room. It is supposed to be welcoming. You and a few others are there for now. We'll be making a post about it for the general public shortly. Yes, your criticism of the staff is part of it. No, it is not the only reason. This is something which has been a long time in coming."


The only reason I enter the WA is to do my Auxili time which provides most of the irony in this situation.

Tiehn responds from afar, "No, you cannot. Anyone can walk in there and chat whenever they like. A certain few can't leave. Consider it the uncensored space folks have been asking for."


You communicate to the administrative staff, "Who has been asking for uncensored space, if I ever wanted to curse or chat with anyone about anything too bad I would leave the WA. Now I cannot perform my auxili duty. So you are telling me I am getting thrown in here for reasons you will not give me besides "Criticism of the staff" when I spend the overwhel"

You communicate to the administrative staff, "overwhelming majority of my time in Meeting Room C?"

When asked to provide a single example of anything I have done wrong, especially when I see dozens of people bypassing swear filters, getting the fist for swearing, or pasting secret IG information they refuse to, the system makes perfect sense.
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#3 Yesterday, 07:43 PM
Tweninger
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,738

Please don't get banned like Eddy, MP.




#4 Yesterday, 07:57 PM
Max Powers
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,163

To get banned I would have to do something wrong instead of them merely making decisions on their perception of me as a player.

Banning requires: You did this and this and this.

As long as they keep making up inventions to ostracize players they can make up the rules to those inventions as well outside of 'Criticism and other stuff.'
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#5 Yesterday, 08:05 PM
sammus12
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: In your mind
Posts: 376


While I admit that neither of you are overly optimistic people, I'm not sure what I heard the other night warrants such actions. I'm also not understanding the whole concept of 'the uncensored space we've all been asking for'. If they mean a place where GMs will come and discuss in detail about their intentions and goals for the game, then I think we need such a place.

Anyway, it really just boils down to the fact you guys piss them off. I'm really interested in hearing what they have to say.. because that's all I ever wanted. To hear them say stuff.




#6 Yesterday, 08:23 PM
Armataan
Dirty as a Darpen Fence! Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Townsville: Frightening Mormons from my doorstep.
Posts: 8,275


Setting up a cordoned area where people are placed and are not allowed to leave, and calling that an 'uncensored area for those who wish to speak their mind', on the outside is called 'imprisonment' guys. Ckingsley22 and Ravenlark are the first WA members of the WA-Ghetto block.

after conversation with two gms, and the two people, Ckingsley22 is apparently there for his attitude and statements months or years ago, with the last 4 weeks non-included.

Since Ckingsley was on aux-duty for virtually all of his time in the WA, and I never saw, or was told of any anti-establishment or anti-helpful behavior from him, I am currently deciding whether to inform the other members of the auxilii that they are not to speak to newbies or direct them in the WA, as it is against the staff's wishes as near as I can tell from the vague answers to my direct questions, as well as statements that are contrary to past instruction in recent months.
__________________




#7 Yesterday, 08:40 PM
Trisidius
Registered User Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sixtus' Bakery
Posts: 1,853

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armataan
I am currently deciding whether to inform the other members of the auxilii that they are not to speak to newbies or direct them in the WA, as it is against the staff's wishes as near as I can tell from the vague answers to my direct questions, as well as statements that are contrary to past instruction in recent months.

I'm pretty sure I've seen something almost exactly the same as this before somewhere...

On a side note, I just attempted to reach out to our ghetto brothers and sisters, but was told by the law I was not welcome at that time. They were having a ghetto cleanout.
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#8 Yesterday, 09:11 PM
Dayltor
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,201

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah..... woah.






Ravenlark, this is not my batman glass.
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#9 Yesterday, 10:30 PM
jkidd
Pilum King Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 571

So... lets just all move to the negative room.
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#10 Yesterday, 10:31 PM
NewPatriot
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,665

Players should not be afraid of their gamemasters; gamemasters should be afraid of their players.




#11 Yesterday, 10:48 PM
Tweninger
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,738

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkidd
So... lets just all move to the negative room.

Yea.

Is anything stopping us well-behaved and grown mature adults from stepping into this "Negative Space" that the GM's have so graciously given us?




#12 Yesterday, 10:54 PM
Max Powers
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweninger
Yea.

Is anything stopping us well-behaved and grown mature adults from stepping into this "Negative Space" that the GM's have so graciously given us?

You are right, I did not think about this in a positive manner. This is a gift from gm's. It is the uncensored WA dream we have all been @requesting and begging for years. I was wrong for being put off by this, I should be thanking them for answering the mounds of @requests yearning for a Negative Room.
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#13 Yesterday, 11:15 PM
cbaker
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,424


I should see if I'm one of those silly negative people, always picking on the staff for not doing their jobs!
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#14 Yesterday, 11:24 PM
Venimal
Registered User Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5

What if the GMs are actually people playing games with the players for funsies? I dunno, I just (re)started playing a couple of weeks ago and I rather enjoy reading forums on occasion, so have probably gotten (negatively? ) influenced by yall on here; but just reading what's been going on seems like some kind of joke being played on people that really care about something possibly a little bit out of "mainstream" American dream by some people controlling it having a bit of fun.

Of course now I'm probably in trouble. I am a sucker for controversy.




#15 Yesterday, 11:55 PM
Rythgen
Property of Dvea Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Emerald Hills
Posts: 3,827

Look on the bright side, at least now you can be a staff whipping boy for free instead of paying for it.
__________________

[Trisha]

#16 Today, 12:58 AM
Urek
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 1,223


Aren't you guys glad that they've finally released something new?????????????//
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#17 Today, 01:29 AM
Ravenlark
Mother Goose Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a cottage made of bones.
Posts: 990

Everyone stay out of my box.
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#18 Today, 01:40 AM
rebel69s
TEC druggy. Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,068


But I thought you wanted me in your box?


~Jere~
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#19 Today, 01:43 AM
Ravenlark
Mother Goose Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a cottage made of bones.
Posts: 990

Only you.

And maybe Mike.

And maybe your brother...
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#20 Today, 01:47 AM
Lexi
♫ ♪ ♫ Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 457

I don't see how this is a bad thing to be honest.

If you're a jerk in the real world then you end up getting treated like a jerk, they're just applying the same principle here. Sure this is an online text game and not the real world but there are still real people on the receiving end, which most people seem to forget.

It'll give the Welcome Area a much more positive and welcoming environment for whatever newbies we get.

Bash away.
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#21 Today, 01:58 AM
Armataan
Dirty as a Darpen Fence! Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Townsville: Frightening Mormons from my doorstep.
Posts: 8,275


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
I don't see how this is a bad thing to be honest.

If you're a jerk in the real world then you end up getting treated like a jerk, they're just applying the same principle here. Sure this is an online text game and not the real world but there are still real people on the receiving end, which most people seem to forget.

It'll give the Welcome Area a much more positive and welcoming environment for whatever newbies we get.

Bash away.

Nowhering the most active auxilii, and trustee, is the best way to help newbies, I hear.
__________________




#22 Today, 02:03 AM
Ravenlark
Mother Goose Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a cottage made of bones.
Posts: 990

Because telling the truth about the Staff is so much worse than cheating like mad, right?

Prz to not comment if you have no legs to stand on. Thanks.
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#23 Today, 02:07 AM
Lexi
♫ ♪ ♫ Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 457

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armataan
Nowhering the most active auxilii, and trustee, is the best way to help newbies, I hear.

It's an acceptable consequence to their actions. As Auxilii and Trustees they should know better anyway, and be more wary of the things that they say about the game, staff and players.

There could easily be more active Auxilii, too. All it takes is another recruitment drive, targeting people who actually want to help the game in and out. I know several people that are interested in doing this.
__________________




#24 Today, 02:09 AM
Armataan
Dirty as a Darpen Fence! Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Townsville: Frightening Mormons from my doorstep.
Posts: 8,275


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
It's an acceptable consequence to their actions. As Auxilii and Trustees they should know better anyway, and be more wary of the things that they say about the game, staff and players.

There could easily be more active Auxilii, too. All it takes is another recruitment drive, targeting people who actually want to help the game in and out. I know several people that are interested in doing this.

We're in the middle of one.

The guy running it was removed.

So yes, I agree.

The auxilii recruitment suffering pointless delays is an acceptable consequence from poorly thought out decisions.
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#25 Today, 02:12 AM
Lexi
♫ ♪ ♫ Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 457

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armataan
We're in the middle of one.

The guy running it was removed.

So yes, I agree.

The auxilii recruitment suffering pointless delays is an acceptable consequence from poorly thought out decisions.

Removed from what? The Auxilii or the Trustees? I'm fairly certain it was only the trustees and having trustee powers aren't paramount to being an Auxilii member anyway. They're something kept separate so I'm not sure how this affects the Auxilii or helping newbies in any way, shape or form- besides the inability for him to help them in the WA.
__________________




#26 Today, 02:22 AM
Armataan
Dirty as a Darpen Fence! Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Townsville: Frightening Mormons from my doorstep.
Posts: 8,275


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
Removed from what? The Auxilii or the Trustees? I'm fairly certain it was only the trustees and having trustee powers aren't paramount to being an Auxilii member anyway. They're something kept separate so I'm not sure how this affects the Auxilii or helping newbies in any way, shape or form- besides the inability for him to help them in the WA.

the person judged most qualified to help newbies, most responsible with the task of running the recruitment, is the same person that was put in the negative space.

This shows a distinct difference of opinion between the GM in charge of this decision, and the player in charge of the decision of choosing the most competent and qualified player for teaching newbies.
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#27 Today, 02:36 AM
Lexi
♫ ♪ ♫ Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 457

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armataan
the person judged most qualified to help newbies, most responsible with the task of running the recruitment, is the same person that was put in the negative space.

This shows a distinct difference of opinion between the GM in charge of this decision, and the player in charge of the decision of choosing the most competent and qualified player for teaching newbies.

Well, he was obviously placed there for a reason. He can still enter the game and do his duties and recruitment tasks in there anyway, so the argument against it is pretty moot.
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#28 Today, 03:07 AM
Max Powers
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
Well, he was obviously placed there for a reason.

Obviously. I can't recall any period in TEC when gm's happened to make rash decisions, enforce arbitrary rules, create new rules to suit their vendettas, or just downright alienate longstanding customers. There just has to be a reason, "criticism and stuff" is the most likely culprit.
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#29 Today, 03:15 AM
Livak
I'll QQ if I want to! Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pandemonium
Posts: 1,212

I'm sorry. Creating a "negative space" to put offending players in is the most hilarious/absurd idea that a GM has come up with in a long while. It cracks me up.

Please replace the missing players with interactive Care Bears in the WA. I want Ravenlark's replacement to be Funshine Bear.

Funshine Bear loves to play and tell jokes all the time, but sometimes forgets that there are times in life you must be serious.
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#30 Today, 03:43 AM
Animeme
A popular religion Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 792

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Powers
"Tiehn responds from afar, "Ah, that. Instead of flat out WA banning folks, that room is the solution for those who are consistently negative and off-colour in the Welcome Room. It is supposed to be welcoming. You and a few others are there for now. We'll be making a post about it for the general public shortly. Yes, your criticism of the staff is part of it. No, it is not the only reason. This is something which has been a long time in coming."

Would you rather have just been WA banned?

It seems kinda silly but I guess it depends on how 'negative' you two were being. If you actually deserved a banning, I'd say being trapped in a room other players can visit isn't bad. I'm not sure why they'd choose it though.
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#31 Today, 04:01 AM
Ravenlark
Mother Goose Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a cottage made of bones.
Posts: 990

What we were doing didn't deserve anything. It wasn't as if we were lying.
__________________




#32 Today, 04:09 AM
Urek
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 1,223


Not like it matters if you're in Negative Space land or the Welcome Area. TEC still crashed so nobody gives a damn.

Can we make these crashes once or twice a week please? Oh wait..
__________________




#33 Today, 04:28 AM
jkidd
Pilum King Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 571

I think we silenced a lot of the negativity yesterday, frankly.
__________________




#34 Today, 04:29 AM
HotMoltenLava
Cornflake Girl Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Iowa the Chest Cavity of America
Posts: 1,981


There are two sayings...

The first:

If you don't have anything good to say about anyone, don't say it at all.

The second:

If you don't have anything good to say about anyone, come sit by me.

I think this situation exemplifies both, in that there are people who would rather not hear it and others who would... they've just made it so that there is a space for both. Bitch and whine and moan and groan, carry on and make asses out of yourselves all you want, you'll keep each other in good company there. Now the rest don't have to listen to it or can choose to when they need a good laugh. This includes the newbies that come through there that don't necessarily need to hear such things especially from people who are supposed to be there to help them. I realize the game has some major problems, but do they really need to hear that when they're just learning the game? Does it really promote retention?

This is not to say that I agree with the negative space, but the reaction to my presence there earlier pretty well sets the mood, so **** you too.
__________________




#35 Today, 04:56 AM
Trisidius
Registered User Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sixtus' Bakery
Posts: 1,853

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotMoltenLava
There are two sayings...

The first:

If you don't have anything good to say about anyone, don't say it at all.

The second:

If you don't have anything good to say about anyone, come sit by me.

I think this situation exemplifies both, in that there are people who would rather not hear it and others who would... they've just made it so that there is a space for both. Bitch and whine and moan and groan, carry on and make asses out of yourselves all you want, you'll keep each other in good company there. Now the rest don't have to listen to it or can choose to when they need a good laugh. This includes the newbies that come through there that don't necessarily need to hear such things especially from people who are supposed to be there to help them. I realize the game has some major problems, but do they really need to hear that when they're just learning the game? Does it really promote retention?

This is not to say that I agree with the negative space, but the reaction to my presence there earlier pretty well sets the mood, so **** you too.

Agreed4321
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#36 Today, 06:18 AM
Tempest
TEC'S Bastard Child Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,510


They should have known better.



All TEC women are unstable at best. Even the likable flirts, that we are all sure isnt a bored aussies alt, cyber accounts
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#37 Today, 06:21 AM
Lexi
♫ ♪ ♫ Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 457

HML said it best.
__________________




#38 Today, 06:24 AM
Tempest
TEC'S Bastard Child Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,510


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexi
HML said it best.

She is also a female. Revert to point.
__________________




#39 Today, 07:31 AM
PhilippeCP
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammus12
I'm also not understanding the whole concept of 'the uncensored space we've all been asking for'. If they mean a place where GMs will come and discuss in detail about their intentions and goals for the game, then I think we need such a place.

Thanks for posting this Sammus. I know I'm taking you a bit out of context but I thought this was really important and also touched on Ravenlark's original post.

As a new player I find it really discouraging to read about the divide between GMs and players that's chasm'd over the years. Pages and pages, threads years old! As a big believer in communication (anyone here married or in a long-term? *waggle*) I think this would make things a lot easier. Ravenlark should have been notified.
I don't really care who's in the right or wrong here, or if it's simply the case that the GMs are getting pissed off at certain players. There is a right and a wrong way to go about this action. In any business the management structure must always appear to work as a cohesive unit. That's why you have a meeting before putting out a memo.
I also don't buy the excuse that GMs are volunteers, therefore unaccountable because 'they're doing this out of the good of their hearts and with their own free time.' Seems to me it takes a lot of work to become a GM. You asked for the job, now perform it. Sammus, along with many others, are just asking for communication.

Provide that and you avoid this PR mess. That way we can understand your logic and move on. Post what you're up to and we'll give you feedback and suggestions!

A friend once told me that if we somehow harnessed the power of all the nerds and trolls in the world who lived in their parents basements we could cure cancer. GMs: I think you're working against us here when you act this independently. Work as a unit and tell us what's going on. We'll help you because we're all here for the same reason.

Another suggestion: Appoint a GM in charge of telling us what's going on and moderating threads like these. Give it a shot and tell me how it goes.





#40 Today, 08:31 AM
HotMoltenLava
Cornflake Girl Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Iowa the Chest Cavity of America
Posts: 1,981


Honestly I think that the GM's are horrible disciplinary agents. They really don't seem to like confrontation, and will avoid those that are punished or needing punished in order to not be the ones to have to give the news as to why they are being punished.

In other situations they don't like to respond to emails regarding issues that really deserve for the person in question to hear something back within a reasonable amount of time, and will leave them hanging for weeks or even months at a time without any answer to the questions asked. I'm not sure if this is due to their inability to give an answer or if they're just hoping that the question will just go away.

ANYTIME someone requests a response regarding either services that they're providing or promised they should get SOME kind of an answer. I don't care if it's a "We're not sure the answer to this question... We're in discussion over your situation, please be patient, you can expect a response within such such a time." A time limit should be given for any thing like this. Anytime someone is punished for something or has some abilty removed there should always be a reason why.

I know that GMs have limited time at their disposal, but that does not explain why they answer one persons requests/reports but bypass anothers without any kind of flag or anything to let the person know that their problem is being dealt with. Every player deserves an answer one way or another. If there is not enough GM's to provide this sort of service then more needs to be hired to fill the jobs as needed, at least within a reasonable amount of time.

I appreciate the GMs and all that they do, but that does not mean I don't see room for improvement.
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#41 Today, 08:38 AM
TaylorMDavis
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,387


I hope you enjoy your time in Negative Space, HML.

GM Basher




#42 Today, 08:45 AM
HotMoltenLava
Cornflake Girl Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Iowa the Chest Cavity of America
Posts: 1,982

Giving constructive criticism is not being negative. These things are pretty evident if one pays attention to the dealings with the GMs. I'm trying to voice a concern and possible solution to the problem. Someone on staff needs to step up and take the displinary position and start giving the hard answers to the hard questions that exist. That would go a LONG way in soothing many disgruntled players if they could just get a straight answer for once about what is being done instead of being avoided or outright ignored.